0.19 - After welcoming the Respondent, the Interviewer asks when and where he was born, and then invites him to share how he became involved with the 30th Craigalmond Scout Group.
“I was in Cubs, Scouts and Venture Scouts - Cubs from around 1974, can’t remember the exact date, to 1977, I think. Now at that time there was two Cub groups – Wednesday evenings with Mrs Broomfield, which was the one that I was involved in, and there was also Cubs on Thursday with Mrs Troop. And then Scouts from ’77 to around ’82, then again, just because of the numbers of Scouts around 1979, they split them into two troops. It was originally just Friday nights and then there was a troop formed on Monday nights, which I went to, and that was with Peter Harden was one of the leaders, and then eventually that became Ian Dewar and Ron Jack. I think when I started Ken Thompson was leader of the Friday group and then when he left and things split, there was Jim Campbell, Ken Deans, Dave Bryce, Robert Armour, James Allen. They were all leaders and helpers on the Friday, and I think on the Monday, I think Robert Armour went with Peter Harden, who I think was one of the sort of area District Commissioners at the time, and then he became the Scout Leader of the Monday one I think it was the 30th Swifts they were called. His son…Peter, or Peter’s son - Phillip was in the Friday Scouts. Around again about ’83, I went to the Venture Scouts, and then the Venture Scouts leaders I think was Ken Milne, to start with, and then he moved away from Edinburgh and Paul Nesbitt took over and then I think it was about 1988 that I left.”
2.53 - The interview moves on to talk about a typical night at the Cubs and Scouts
“Cubs… things I recall about the Cubs – you were obviously in sixes which were called after colours.
I remember on the Scout Hall there were discs around the wall with the colour of that six. There were benches, like box benches, all the way round the hall, and there were maybe two sixes on one side and then at the top another two, and then at the other side another two, and you obviously sat in that area with your six. As I say, there was a coloured disc on the wall that corresponded to a coloured woggle, the colour of woggle that you wore, so if you were in the red six then you obviously had the red woggle…
Interviewer: Do you recall what you were?
Respondent: To be honest, no, but you probably moved sixes when you became a seconder or a sixer – you would have probably moved. So, I remember at the start of the night there would be an Inspection, so you got your uniform inspected and you were expected to carry things like a clean handkerchief. There were coins – I can’t remember exactly how much it was, but it was maybe like two pence for the phone, just in case you needed to use a public call box. I think it was two pence was the charge of a call then, so you were expected to have that and pencil and paper. So, everybody would be inspected: their hands would be inspected, to have clean hands, clean fingernails, that you were in full uniform. Then there were obviously marks awarded for each six. There was, I think, a running competition. I can’t remember how long it was over – if it was maybe over a month – and there was some kind of award, whether it was a shield or something that got presented to the six that had the most points at the end of it. So, there would be an Inspection, and after that it was just games in the hall. Scouts pretty much followed the same format. There would still be Inspection, and you’d be in patrols. The patrols were called after birds when I started. I was in the Curlews. There were Curlews, Eagles, Owls, Falcons, Ravens. That was when we were all together as one patrol on the Friday. I think they moved to animals – I may be wrong – when we became the Monday, but that sort of sounds familiar. There was something like… I couldn’t even name them all. I remember there was the Panthers was one of them, but I can’t remember the other patrols. But each patrol, rather than the coloured discs that they had around, it was the same in that each patrol had its own area in the hall and their own notice board as well. Each patrol had made like a crest or a coat of arms at some point along the line, whether it was just carving out of wood in the shape of the bird or a carving of the bird. So, they were on the walls as well, and you would go to that particular area. And again, there would be an Inspection at the start, there was the running competition, and then it would be games. Sometimes in the summer we would have the game outside, so you would go out in your patrols around the area following clues and things they did. I remember doing tracking games where they would have signs with sticks, like arrows to follow, and the circles of stones with the stone in the middle meaning “going home” at the end. So, there were games like that. There was another thing with Scouts: there was always the flag-break at the beginning. I think there was a duty patrol leader, and they would be responsible for folding the flag and then breaking the flag. The flag would come down and I think everyone would salute it, and then at the end of the night the flag would be lowered as well. Again, it was the duty patrol leader – I’m sure they had to march out to the flag and lower it.”
8.08 - The Interviewer goes on to ask where in the local area would the Scout group play its games
“Davidson’s Mains Park was a popular one, the lane around here, the area around here. Certainly, when we went to the Monday Scouts, Peter Harden, who was the leader, had a great imagination and was very good at coming up with these games. They were called ‘wide games’ and he was very creative, I seem to remember. I remember one particular one where the scenario was around a spy who had stolen blueprints to somewhere, and you got clues, and you had to go up and collect these blueprints from somewhere. He obviously knew somebody that lived up at Barnton Avenue, because I remember that we ended up in some huge house at Barnton Avenue and we collected these. I seem to remember that they were just a photocopy of the plans for Concorde or something like that. I’m sure he worked for Parsons Peebles, so whether he got it through his work or whatever, this was part of the game. Some of them were quite creative. They were always good. Lauriston Castle as well – I seem to remember being in the grounds of Lauriston Castle.”
9.28 - The Interviewer asked whether this was a period of growth for the Scout Troop and if the Respondent had been given a choice of which nights to attend when the second Cub and Scout packs were created.
He explained that he could not recall having a choice about which Cub night to join and simply attended the one his older brother was in. Regarding Scouts, he noted that he was already a member when the Troop split into two nights. On that occasion, he did have a choice of which group to attend, although he could not remember why he chose the Monday night group.
The conversation then moved on to Scout badges.
“There was badge work every week, or most weeks, so that would be part of the meeting as well, that you split up to do badge work. Because there were four badges that made up, that you had to have before you went and got your Chief’s Scouts Award. I remember one was maybe red with maybe white stripes or chevrons on it. But yeah, there was work every meeting on that and you would split into groups depending on what badge you were working on.
But there were also sort of interest badges, the hobbyist badges that you could do. I can’t remember exactly how they maybe said, ‘Right, we’re doing whatever badge,’ and you would come in with whatever work you needed to do that. Some of them, like the Camp Cook badge, you would have to do at summer camp. But yes, there was badge work every week as well.”
12.07 - The Interviewer asks if the Respondent remembers anything about the uniform he wore.
“Scouts it was a green shirt, green shirt, beige trousers, Scout belt, it was a brown belt with a Scout badge on it, I’m trying to think was it - the belt doubled as a bottle opener, the two parts went together, one was a circle with the Scout crest on it which clipped in through and then doubled back on itself on the other which was a rectangle with a round hole on it and that section doubled as a bottle opener.”
12.44 - He goes on to talk about the Cubs uniform.
“In Cubs, it was a sort of dark green pullover, there was neckerchiefs in both because obviously there was a coloured woggle for the Cubs and then the Scout one was just a leather one with a gold Scout crest on it. The Cubs had the hat erm the cap as well, the green jumper, the neckerchief, there were shorts, you just wore your school shorts, they were grey shorts and there was sort of the green bits – garter flashes on your socks.”
14.46 - The Respondent is asked if any leaders stand out to him and why.
“I’ve mentioned Peter Harnden; he was so keen and great, you know, with everything, the way he ran the Scout Group. I remember he was really into his hillwalking, and he would go away at either Christmas, Boxing Day, and New Year’s Day for hikes in the Pentlands, and would run a New Year’s Day hike for the Scout Troop. So, this always stuck out. He was away doing things all the time for the Scouts. You know, he was giving up so much and it really was quite a dedication. And thinking back as well, people like Ken Deans, Dave Briggs, Robert Armour, who were all, you know, now when I think, young guys that were giving up so much – they must have just left school or been at university – giving up so much of their social time to put into Scouting. Even at the Scout camps that we went on, the sort of things that they created, like rope bridges and, you know, zip lines and things like that, you know, that was amazing skills thinking about it. I remember there were logs. I think it was the first Scout camp that I went on. It was down in the Borders, in a place called Rutherford. And I remember we had a coach, a single-decker coach, pulled up outside the Scout Hut and we loaded so much onto that coach. There were these big, huge log beams that were kept in the roof of the Scout Hut that came off there onto the roof rack on this coach and were transported down to the Borders. They were then used as supports to make a rope bridge across the river. But these guys really stuck out to me for their commitment.”
17.26 - The Respondent went on to describe becoming a patrol leader, reflecting on his experiences both as a patrol leader and as an assistant patrol leader in the Cubs and Scouts. He then discussed the patrol boxes, which were stored in the benches that lined the hall. These boxes had lids and padlocks, since the hall was shared with other users, and the patrol leaders were entrusted with the keys. In addition to the general Scout subscription for the term, there was also a patrol subscription. This was used to buy items for the patrol to support their activities.
19.56 - He then discusses a visit made by two of the leaders and patrol leaders to determine the site of a summer camp.
“We went down for a weekend, and we were choosing the campsite, now there was maybe various farmers who had offered Scouts use of his fields or whatever, an area on his land, cause we visited two or three to choose what site we were going to have the summer camp so we had like a mini-camp for the patrol leaders. I remember a funny story about that – I think it was Ron Jack’s mother’s car, he lived with his parents, and he had this wee Citron 2CV, it was either yellow or orange, and so he’d parked it in this field that we were staying, that we’d pitched our tents in and I remember that the cows had been attracted to this car and started licking it and the cow’s tongue had caused paint blisters on this car.”
21.46 - The Respondent is then asked, aside from playing games and camps, if there were any other outdoor activities that he did while at Scouts.
“We went to Hadrian’s Wall and did, I can’t remember where we stayed…if it was youth hostels, probably youth hostels that we stayed, and we walked part of Hadrian’s Wall. Now I think that was just a long weekend and then I think we went to, after that, we went to the Lake District as well. So the Lake District, we went to…again it was walking, because - Peter Harnden - it would be walking, and we climbed…we went to Helvyllan, I remember a mountain called Striding Edge which is a ridge in the Lake District and it was just mist on both sides and I remember walking along this really narrow ridge and these memorials every twenty yards about somebody who had died on the mountain.”
24.10 - The interview moves on to ask the Respondent who he attended Scouts with – whether it was friends or siblings.
“My brother as I say was in the Cubs and the Scouts and the Venture Scouts so yeah but you sort of made friends through the Scouts and then you would get people who were at school with you that were in the Scouts and the Cubs so you sort of became probably more friendly with them and there was maybe people in your class that you didn’t know that well but then you knew them through the Scouts. I remember going to High School and being friends with people who I knew through the Scouts that you know weren’t necessarily my friends beforehand, so they became your friends. Certainly, the Venture Scouts it was probably, you know, I made friends through the Venture Scouts, people that I subsequently, you know, out with the Scouts, I remember going on a skiing holiday with two or three of the guys that I became friends with through the Venture Scouts.”
26.49 - The Respondent is then asked about the types of games that were played at Scouts when he was there.
“Right…games in the Scouts…Murder Ball was one of the games we played, British Bulldogs…that one that was Port, Starboard and run to whatever area. When we were in the Scouts and again, I think it was after we had split into the two Scout Troops, I think it was our troop had bought it was called Uni-Hoc and it was just plastic hockey sticks with a plastic puck and that was again quite often we would have like indoor hockey competitions that was just like ice hockey with a plastic puck in the hall. There was gaps at either end between the benches and that was taped off with your, like you know, your black and yellow sort of chevroned tape, your sort of danger tape, that was round in the brickwork in the shape of a goal and that was often used for five-a-side football in the hall and Uni-Hoc. There was always five-a-side football at the end; I think it was maybe like the older people who stayed and played, you know, five-a-side – when I say five-a-side, it was just football, and it was any number of people aside, but we’d always stay at the end of the meeting like the older Scouts.”
28.44 - The Respondent then asked about the Scout’s Canteen.
“Again, that was in one of the locked benches that the Scout Leader would have the key to that padlock, and it was just sweets; it was like a tuck shop. So, you would bring along money and just buy juice or sweets and crisps and stuff your face with that at the end of the night.”
29.38 - The interview moves on to ask which activities at Scouts were the most memorable for the Respondent.
“Camps were always great; they were always in the first week in July. Again, there was a running competition between the patrols, and you weren’t in your own patrol for it – it was just a patrol that was created for that camp. The camps would be mixed between the Mondays and the Fridays. Once we’d split into two troops, they would amalgamate for a summer camp. So, they were always good, and I always went. Always wet. I think there was one that was sunny, but I particularly remember the Kingussie one being so wet. There would always be a river that went through the camp, so you would do things like canoeing and things like that. But I always remember it being particularly wet and them thinking, you know, what can we do in the rain? And then them coming up with some activities. Don’t know if you remember It’s a Knockout, the television programme? They came up with an It’s a Knockout type tournament. They had a big polythene sheet down this hill that was like a waterslide, and you’d have to carry pans of water from the top, slide down there without spilling any, and get it to… it was a race, like a race to see who could fill up their container first.
So again, it was sort of, you know, very creative in what activities we can do. Because you’re getting wet anyway, so you might as well do that in the rain, or you’re getting wet in the canoe so you can go canoeing. So, I always enjoyed the camps.”
31.23 - The Respondent goes on to discuss the Venture Scouts having a yearly expedition, and he mentions one trip, which was inter-railing around the Alps. He talks about travelling all around Europe carrying everything you need on your back.
He recalls hiking in the mountains independently with a partner and being caught in a terrible hailstorm where they had to take refuge in a cable car station on top of a mountain throughout the night. This story then sparks another memory about a summer camp with the Scouts.
“There was also a sort of midnight hike for the patrol leaders, again they were given a route, and you would go off hiking yourself, following co-ordinates on a map, there was always a lot of map reading that you would do, and you would hike through the night and end up at a particular point. We did other hikes as well with the Scouts that were arranged, not at a camp, I remember we did a night hike to Aberdour, now it was I think a bothy that we ended up staying somewhere in at Aberdour but we…and they were always arranged for full moons so there was like enough light as possible…and I remember leaving here walking into Queensferry Road cross the Forth Bridge then some route following the coast and ending up in Aberdour.”
37.11 - The Respondent returned to the subject of the Venture Scout trips, explaining that the first week was always dedicated to an organised hike, while the second week focused on recreation. He recalled trips to Austria and to Yugoslavia, which at the time was under Communist rule.
He remembered noticing the large number of people in military uniform and described it as a striking cultural contrast. He also recounted how one of his fellow Scouts, who held both British and American citizenship, had his passport temporarily confiscated, as Americans were viewed with suspicion in Yugoslavia at that time. He went on to describe another trip to the island of Crete in Greece, noting that at the time it was still largely untouched by tourism.
41.50 - The conversation then moves back to Scout camps and some of the traditions and experiences of camp life.
“There was a flagpole, I seem to remember, that was always erected in the centre. And then there was a signal that was a number of whistles – I can’t remember how many – and there would be sort of everybody round the flagpole because there would be an announcement, or whatever they were going to tell you what was happening or whatever. So, everybody would run round that. So again, there must have been…I don’t particularly remember, but there must have been…I don’t know if there was a daily flag break or if there was a flag that went up at the start of the camp and came down at the end. Then there were campfires. There was maybe, in a week, maybe three campfires. There was one on the last night, which was always a sort of big ceremonial one. People would be getting awards and things like that. Whoever had won the competition would get the trophy for winning it. And then there were a couple of mini ones – a couple during the week.
Interviewer: Any favourite campfire songs?
Respondent: Songs? I can’t really remember any songs… I couldn’t even tell you… I’m trying to think of songs. There was one about somebody who invented a sausage-meat machine. I couldn’t tell you what it was, but I remember the story: somebody invented a sausage-meat machine and then one of the lines was about the pussycats and all the rats would never more be seen, as they’d all been turned to sausages. And then I think something went wrong with the machine and the guy climbed in it and the guy’s wife switched it on and he’s now sausages. That’s the only one of the songs I remember. I remember as well that each patrol had to do like a sketch or sing a song, some kind of entertainment at the campfire. And again, the only sketch that I can remember, that was always at every camp, would always pick on a volunteer. And it would always be the youngest person who had never been at camp before, because otherwise they knew what it was. And there were people from one patrol standing with a blanket, and they would say, ‘This is an enlarging machine.’ You would throw like a teaspoon over and you would get a big ladle thrown back. You would throw the smallest pan over and then you would get the biggest pan. Then they would say, ‘Right, spit over it,’ and this huge bucket of water came and soaked the guy after it.”
44.35 - The Interviewer then asks whether the Respondent recalls attending any Scout Jamborees. The Respondent remembers that the events took place but did not attend any, and he is unsure why. He does, however, recall a Cub activity held at Bonaly, where each Cub Troop was assigned a country. His group was given “France” and had to create something representing that country within their designated area. The Cubs were provided with a “passport” that allowed them to visit the various countries represented by the other groups.
46.24 - The Interviewer asks about local community activities that the Respondent would have been involved in with the Troop.
“I remember Bob-a-Job then it became Scout Job Week. I remember doing that myself you know a couple of years and was just things like…a lot of people just gave you a donation because they just wanted you away from the front door, but there was things like polishing shoes and sweeping the path were the most common ones.”
47.03 - He is then asked about any events that were particularly impactful within the community.
“I remember there was Davidson’s Mains Gala Day, and I remember raising money for charity to do with a cycle, but it was a bicycle that was on these rollers, so it wasn’t quite static and I remember somebody having to hold the bicycle because the person was like all over the place and people were over and falling off it but it was to cycle however many miles of distance so it was a sponsored event at that took place at Gala Day.”
47.55 - The Respondent then talks about Remembrance Day – which, unlike now, wasn’t a parade but was a Church Service. He did not have any recollection of the Gala Day Parade; he said his sister, who was a Guide, took part but did not think the Scouts did at this time, although he wasn’t sure about this as he does recall the Scout Flags.
“I got my Chief Scout’s Award, I don’t know again how much of an accomplishment that was, but you know I think just generally everything you did; you know you wouldn’t do half the things or I wouldn’t have done half the things I’ve done had I not been in the Scouts, like abseiling, again I think that was Venture Scout. We regularly went abseiling and hillwalking, probably you know we talked about the Venture Scouts Summer expeditions and that I think that gave you a lot of self-responsibility, you’ve not got anybody telling you what to do, what to buy for your food because you had to buy your own… you were given money to budget, and so you would have to buy your own meals, cook your own meals, you would have to plan your own routes, find your own accommodation - well, accommodation in where to get permission where to pitch your tent or you know [illegible] in Crete and things like that so I think it certainly gave you a lot of sort of skills in self-management and responsibility that had I not been there you would have had to wait until later in life to develop.
Interviewer: So, there’s definitely skills that you learned in Scouting that you use now?
Respondent: Certainly, I think it made you more mature at a younger age than it would had you not been in the Scouts and even things like cooking skills and things like that that you know you cooked all your own meals at summer camp in Scouts and that was part of the competition over the week that a leader would be delegated to each patrol every night for a meal so as well as cooking your own meal, you would cook a leaders meal so they’d come and have dinner with you then give you marks based on the quality of your meal and then it would rotate on a daily basis so they would move round to a different patrol so they were marking everybody. So certainly, yes, cooking and things like that that you would not have learned until later.”
52.55 - The Respondent mentions that his daughter did not become a Scout but had been a Brownie and is now a Guide. He and the Interviewer then discuss some of her experiences in those groups.
The Interviewer asks whether the Respondent still lives in the area and, if so, whether he is aware of the Troop's activities. He explains that, although he no longer lives nearby, his mother still does and has mentioned that the Scouts donated wooden planters to the community.
Finally, he is informed that the interview has concluded and is asked if he has any final thoughts or memories about his time with the group.
“I don’t know if they still have it in the Scouts, but I remember the Scouts ran…they had a selection of ski equipment at Valleyfield Street, they had a place at Valleyfield Street up at the King’s Theatre, and they used to in the winter they used to run a bus up to Glenshee every Saturday for a sort of nominal fee and you could hire your ski equipment and you’d get transport up to Glenshee and you know we did that with the Scouts and you know it was through that taught me how to ski. And you know, again, I suppose another activity that was introduced to me just purely through the Scouts, so going back to ’81, possibly ’81,’82, and you know it then became a hobby of mine. I think with the Venture Scouts as well, we hired a cottage two or three times, two or three years up at Kirkmichael just down from Glenshee, and you know you drove up to Kirkmichael and stayed in this cottage then you’d drive up to Glenshee but you were making use of the Scout Equipment, the cheap ski hire and everything like that, you might even have got cheap ski passes as well I don’t know but again its opportunities that were given to you for being a member of the Scouts”
56.35 - The Respondent was then informed that was the end of the interview and thanked for his time and sharing his memories with the project.