00.27 - Where were you born, and where did you grow up?
“So was born in Edinburgh and grew up in Edinburgh. Had moved away for a little bit…a little bit of travel and then moved back here. Had kids and felt I had quite a good childhood, enjoyed myself here school-wise and Cubs and Scout-wise wise and thought I would like to have my kids to experience that as well.”
01.09 - How were you involved with the 30th Craigalmond Scout Group and the years that you were here?
“So, there was only Cubs, Scouts and Venture Scouts at the time when I was there. I was involved in Cubs right from - I'm not sure how old I would have been when you're allowed to be in Cubs…is it 8? So, I would have been in Cubs for two years, three years? and then Scouts for similar, so up until up until Venture Scouts. I think I maybe did one or two sessions and then left. I wasn't really into that. I think the crowd or group I was in just kind of dispersed or moved on, so my key mates weren't into that either, so…yeah, years 1984 to 1990ish.”
02.07 - Can you recall what a typical Scout evening was like?
“So, games, there would be the usual… a bit of a rammy to start off, and then you'd line up in your patrols – P.L., A.P.L., one on either end. You'd have your set side of the hall. I think you would do… do start the little sort of flag pulling up or down, or maybe there was a bit of folding of the flag, and that kind of thing or unfolding. And then there'd be a few, depending on what's going on, there might be some first aid stuff through here, and there'd be some games and things like Crab Football and British Bulldogs that sort of spring to mind. And then maybe, I don't know, something more problem-solving. I think that would be sort of typical night there. Quite a few activities.”
03.09 - The Interviewer then asks the Respondent about lining up in his Patrol.
“So, you had back in the day, you had, what would you call them… trunks or side benches, but they opened up, and they had, I think they had a lock on them, so you each had a corner, and I think we maybe had stuff in there as well.”
03.41 - Do you remember taking part in any of the ceremonies or traditions?
“So, yes, so they… You know what? It's very loose memories but yeah, I think… I can't remember how it went, but I do have a vague recollection of the flag and specific folding of it or wrapping in it so, that's right, so you would pull it up to the top and then you give a tug, and it would fall down. Do they still do that?”
04.36 - Do you remember much about the uniform in Cubs and Scouts?
“Yeah, so… Cubs, I believe, was more, I feel that was more jumpery? Green [points to his arms] badges and stuff. And back in the day, it was all sewing on by a parent…and [points to neck] your necker and toggle with your colour of your Patrol. And Scouts, I felt, was more of a shirt with the same sort of badges and whatnot was sewn on.”
05.17 - Do you remember the name of your Patrol?
“So, I think I may be moved, but I was Curlews. I believe was my Scout one and Cubs, I felt was a colour, so I have a feeling it was red.”
05.42 - Were your friends also in the Scout Group?
“Yes. So, Cubs, I think you knew a lot more from school, primary school and stuff. The Scouts, I think there was less but i had less, but I had a sort of a key group of maybe 3-5 really good mates. And we weren't necessarily in the same Patrol, but we were here on the same evenings.”
06.10 - So, you came up with them?
“No, I didn't. I was in… So, they lived up more Corbiehill way and up Drylaw Crescent way, and I was down in Silverknowes, so I did another car share with someone else down Silverknowes way.”
06.31 - The Interviewer then asks whether the Respondent remembers any leaders. He replies that he does, though his memories are stronger from his time in the Scouts rather than the Cubs. He recalls Ron Jack as a prominent leader, describing him as funny and noting that he drove a Citroën 2CV. He also remembers Gordon Drysdale, David Wilson, someone named Neil, and another leader who had a beard.
07.48 - What were the leaders like? Were they quite strict with things like uniforms, behaviour?
“I don't remember them strict with uniform. I think they seemed quite lenient for the most part. In fact, you know what? Sometimes I remember there's maybe a bit too lenient just with some of the games and whatnot might be…quite rough shall we say [laughs] Especially when you go up to Scouts as there is quite a bit of disparity between the P. Ls at age group and the ones that have just come up. But you know you just kinda got on with it [laughs] They were, I wouldn't say they were overly strict, just kind of… standard.”
08.35 - How did you address them?
“I can't remember, I think it may have just been first name.”
08.44 - Did you ever become a Patrol Leader, and was it a tough job trying to rein in your Patrol?
“I did. So no, you had your A.P.L. as well, and you kinda worked as a team, and no, I think on the whole everyone kind of toed the line, you kind of knew what was required of you. I suppose it depended on who was in the Patrol at that time… some kids are a little bit more lively than others. But… No, I remember doing some of the Area Camps and stuff like that. So, no everyone was quite well behaved.”
09.30 - Do you recall any particular badges and the work you had to do to get them?
“So, I remember, I don't know if this was Cups or Scouts, but I remember the Music Badge. I did that one. So, there was a Pathfinder one, maybe a greenish one, there was the one before that, I recall a white one with a purple on it. I don't know if they were sort of bigger rectangular ones rather than your actual individual badge things. I think…like Athletics Badge… I remember the piano I had to go…I believe the woman's name was Akela; she was one of the Cub Leaders, and I had to go to her house and play the piano for her. I got my badge.”
10.36 - Can you share a memorable outdoor adventure or trip you had with Scouts?
“I suppose the one that springs to mind is the Gang Show, so yeah, that was always a great trip out. That was an annual thing, and not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I was in the Gang Show a couple of times. So I was in with Cubs, I think it was their 75th year thing, and then I was in with Scouts as well for one show.”
11.20 - Did you enjoy that experience?
“So yes, and found it quite nerve-wracking and stuff. But the lead-up, the practice and stuff we were up at Tollcross Primary School. Yeah, up there at the weekends for rehearsals, and it was just great, such good fun, loads of just cracking people, just a good laugh and yeah, so enjoyed that.”
11.44 - The Interviewer then asks whether the Respondent has kept in contact with any members of the Scout group. He replies that there are only two friends he keeps in touch with. When asked if his decision not to continue with the Venture Scouts was influenced by his friends leaving, he agrees that this was true to some extent.
12.26 - Do you remember what games you played at Scouts, and did you have a favourite?
“So, I think everyone's favourite, especially the bigger you got, was Murderball and was it the same as British Bulldogs? Similar sort of thing. Very rough. So British Builders was great. Everyone's at one wall at one end of the hall, someone's in the middle, you're trying to person, grab them, lift them off their feet and then you're in the middle with them and so on until there's one person standing and that was good. It was good if you're bigger. I was never that big, so yeah, when you first come into it, it was quite rough. Toughened you up a bit. Crab Football was not a favourite, that was on the card quite often… Is it just rubbish…a Rubbish game? Do they still play that? [laughs] That was not enjoyable. Maybe kids have changed nowadays and enjoy that a little bit more. I'm trying to think what else…you had Dodgeball, probably playing football and stuff as well. Maybe less so that just because Crab Football seemed more manageable [laughs] tired folk out more walking on your hands and feet.”
13.49 – 14.30 - The Interviewer then asks the Respondent whether he remembers going out into the community as part of his Scout nights. He recalls that most activities took place in the hall and feels that Scouts today are probably more involved in the community than they were in his time. When asked about taking part in community events such as litter picks or beach cleans, he cannot recall being involved in any. However, he does remember taking part in Bob-a-Job Week and is invited to elaborate on that experience.
“You try to raise money by going round to help the local people with things, like neighbours and stuff. So, I remember one specifically…I had this dog on my street - this big black lab you'd see getting walked every day, and I thought I could walk the dog for them And the lady, we knew them well, I was quite small with this big lab and she's like, yeah, yeah, it should be fine and it wasn't wanting to go at all so she gave me a sausage to take with me up the road [laughs] And, you know, I got to maybe the end of our street and up to me and I was like. No dog was not for…munched the sausage and wanted to go back home. But yeah, that kind of thing…raking up leaves in elderly people's garden, that kind of thing. It would be more local to your street, maybe to your street and then maybe one on either side.”
15.51 - The Respondent is asked whether he remembers taking part in the Gala or any Remembrance Parades. He does not have any specific memories of these events but recalls attending the Gala and playing in football matches, though he is unsure whether this was with the Scouts or his primary school.
16.54 - Do you remember taking part in any camps in Scouts or Cubs and what was the experience like?
“Yeah, so I do remember…really fond memories of camps, so Bonally was a popular one, Fordell Firs was another one. We were really fortunate or lucky, we managed to get through quite a lot of, I don't know what the different regions were, but we'd do like an Area Camp sort of one - it was all like points or whatever and then you'd get to the next stage maybe like a County one or a Scottish one I remember going quite far on that a few years. One was just as a, I'll not use a derogatory term for the people we were called before you were an A.P.L. or a P.L., but as a smaller person and, as definitely as an A.P.L., and I think a P.L. as well. We sort of, you know, progressed on those, and they were just brilliant because there was a few folk when I was there as an A.P.L. or lower. There were other people, we knew from folk from other schools and maybe in high school as well, so it was just great. So much fun out in the wild…bonfires…all that kind of stuff, just getting away with a little bit more mischief than we should have been doing, which was great, just to be away and doing that kind of thing.”
18.31 - Do you recall what kind of accommodation you would have been in?
“Tents, yes, I'd say always tents, I think. I remember we'd have our Karrimore mats and stuff, and we had, can I talk about pyrokinetics? You can edit anything out, but I don't mind. So we were quite fond of fires and so folks would have flints, so if you were really sort of outdoorsy and you can make your own but people also had deodorant at the time and deodorant was combustible [laughs] We never had any major incidents, but that's what, you know, our carry mats came back maybe not quite as pristine as they went away shall we say that was quite entertaining with them bubble up. I can't remember soggy ones [camps] but I'm sure we did get, suffer the Scottish weather with our tent.”
19.48 - Do you recall any traditions or ceremonies while you were at camp?
“Yeah, so campfire songs. Things like… Wild Rover... "you've been a wild rover for many years" that song, also Green Grow the Rushes Grow [laughs] I can probably still bang these out if you want [laughs] Swing Low Sweet Chariot, you used to sing, I’m not sure if I can still sing that up here. If I had longer, I could probably write down a few more songs. But there was also we would have, round the campfire, it would be performances - like Patrol performances or in your in your group. You'd have maybe get some props or you'd have maybe 10, 20 minutes to go and come up with that a show that you're going to play for everyone so you know things like… you'd maybe have a big blanket up or something like that and it'd be like the magic enlarging machine or shrinking machine so you know you'd have a big ladle and then that would go in and someone would chuck out a spoon… that kind of thing.”
21.18 - Do you remember anything about the food at Scout camp?
“Cooked ourselves, yes. Baked potatoes were quite popular…foil them up, just chuck them in. I remember spaghetti Bolognese. I'm sure we must have had burgers and things and sort of hot dog sausages, but I can't remember so much. Interviewer: Was it a high point or a low point in your camping experience? Respondent: No, you know, so… Definitely, I'm thinking now, just remembering the cleaning of all your pots and pans, which was…yeah, that wasn't a great job, so I remember the food was fine, I don't remember thinking any of the food was terrible and going away hungry. Yeah, washing the pots and pans and them being just covered in black, you’d have those Brillo pads to try and clean them down. Do the kids still get to cook their own food now? I do remember another pyro story…you would get left to your own devices, which was great, and you were sensible enough that you weren't going to do anything ridiculous, but folk sort of worked out with cooking oil or butter or whatever you could get, how a chip pan fire worked. So, you can get a little bit of fire there pour a little bit of water, and you could get a big flame - we experimented with that. So you could get a can of Coke and kind of put that in your fire, get a leaf flame on that, and you could just ladle in a bit of water, you could get like a big firework display out of that [laughs]. Edit all of this out if it's not appropriate or wanting to be shared [laughs]”
23.44 - The Interviewer then asks whether the Respondent ever took part in any Scout Jamborees or international camps, to which he replies that he did not. He is also asked whether he worked towards his Chief Scout Award; he remembers earning some badges but is unsure if he pursued the award itself.
24.44 - Were there any moments during your time with the 30th where you felt a sense of accomplishment?
“Winning some of those camps that felt good - winning and then getting to the next stage- was good, and that would be one of the bigger achievements.”
25.06 - Do you feel Scouting impacted your personal growth or skill set in any way?
“So personal growth for sure - I have always said I had such a good experience at Cubs and Scouts that I would, at some stage, feel I wanted to get back and wanted to be a leader. For the record, I do help out with the Athletics Badge, and I've run some classes for leaders and parents as well, and I will continue to help out on the front but I had a really positive at Cubs and Scouts and it definitely enriched my life with loads of the camping experience, the wilderness, making bivouacs and, you know Bear Grylls kind of outdoorsy stuff – that made quite an impact on me.”
27.26 - The Respondent is then asked for his thoughts on Scouting today and whether he sent his children to the group. He explains that he did not, noting that he has daughters and was unaware for some time that girls were allowed to join Scouts. He is then asked whether girls were permitted in Scouts during his time and if their inclusion would have changed his experience. He reflects that it would likely have been quite different.
27.30 - Are there any last thoughts or memories that you'd like to share?
“Overall, just to sort of reiterate what I said in that last question, I think it was just It was a really positive experience. I loved coming to Cubs and Scouts each night. It was great, it was good fun. I got to see my closer group of friends, but also you got to see a wider group of folk, and you knew most of them, most of them were at the local school, and that was great. Yeah, really, really enjoyed it. It wasn't one of these ones that your parents kick you out to, you're getting dragged, kicking and screaming to, I loved my time here. It was great.”
28.08 The Respondent was thanked for his time.