0.05 - The Interviewer begins by asking when the Respondent was born and where he grew up, before exploring how he became involved with the 30th Craigalmond Scout Group.
“Here in Davidson’s Mains, lived in Vivienne Terrace until I was twenty…born in the Simpson Memorial Hospital obviously, as we all were in those days, I left in 1967...November 1967, I left.”
0.50 - The Respondent goes on to explain how he was involved with the 30th Craigalmond Scout Group.
“Well, it was the 30th Midlothian in those days, and I joined the Cubs probably I’d be seven, so that would make it 1954 and stayed with them till I left in 1963, I think when I was sixteen, which I think was my last year.”
1.14 - The Interviewer goes on to ask what a typical Scout night was like. He didn’t recall much about his time in the Cubs, although he remembered he became a Sixer and his first weekend away with the group.
“Probably for most of us, it was the first time we were ever away from home and we went to the Hermitage of Braids, I don’t if that’s still there or not, and I think we left on Friday night and were due back on the Sunday afternoon probably so it was two nights away, but the parents were allowed to visit on the Saturday afternoon [laughs] and I remember my mother bringing a homemade cake out and those of us had the honour of having that at night, sort of a midnight snack if you like, it was a big experience never being away from home before and I remember the Akela, I don’t remember her name… my sister always talked about her she said she was absolutely gorgeous. She’d probably be no more than 19 or 20, I suppose, if she was even as old as that…but of course, when you are seven years old, she was a grown-up woman. I remember she had a boyfriend, I think he was a Scout as well, and he used to visit her regularly, but I don’t remember her name at all. She was a lovely, lovely lady, I remember.”
2.53 - The conversation moves on to talk about a typical Scout night.
“We still assembled in our patrols and there was always a log read of the previous meeting and so one patrol leader would be selected to do that each week which passed round and you read it out for the previous week and everyone sort of agreed that was like what happened that night, and we also used to do if we went away, which we did regularly, for walks in the Pennines [shakes head]
Interviewer: Pentlands?
Respondent: Yes! We used to go up the Covenanter’s Grave as a favourite place we used to visit, and I remember Mr Gordon with his dog, his wee dog…who was a lovely dog and he used to come with us – the dog loved it and somebody again would take the notes of all that and it would be read out at the next meeting.”
3.51 - The Respondent then goes on to talk about his experiences at Scout Camps.
“Scout camps…we went to Kelso, Forres, Dunkeld, I’m sure there was another one somewhere, but I don’t remember, and then of course the big one when we went to Germany. But in those days health and safety wasn’t this kind of issue that you have now, there used to be a gentleman, I don’t know if he was the coal merchant or not, he had a lorry and that’s how we used to travel to anywhere…to Scout camps, we just threw our stuff in the back of the lorry and we all just climbed in the back of the lorry and drove to wherever we were going. There were no seats or anything, we just sat in the back of the lorry…there were sides on it, fortunately.
Interviewer: And who was in charge, did the Scout leader come with you or did you just go yourselves?
Respondent: Just ourselves, yes, aye.
Interviewer: So, they would arrange for the coalman to come at a set time?
Respondent: Yes, they would pick up the whole troop and off we’d go to Scout camp. And then, of course, when you were there, you could build your tents, dug your latrines and set up the plate golf course, which was the priority, and the cooking area and everything, of course, everybody took their turn at that – still cook corn beef hash [laughs]”
5.02 - The Interviewer then asked whether camp duties were allocated by the Scouts themselves or whether different tasks were assigned to younger Scouts compared with older members. The Respondent suggested that there was likely an informal pecking order, but he did not recall any bullying. He went on to reflect on some of the individuals within the group and to discuss the annual Gang Show.
“Mr Gordon was the Scout Master, there were other men as well, the only other one I remember was… I think his name was Colin McLean and he was a travel agent that worked in the travel agents that used to be up on the Main Street between Maltkin [?] the chemist and Atkinson the butchers…now that’s going way back, and there were other people as well. But there was a lot of talented people and older ones as Scouts…they had a skiffle band…with the old tea chest and everything and they were fantastic, they used to always appear at the Gang Show and these are the guys who used to write all the scripts for all the skits we did, everything was homemade and we used to spend a lot of time rehearsing them and everything and it really was the highlight of the village and it used to run from about half seven to about half nine, ten o’clock and we had songs and skits and various other bits and pieces.
Interviewer: So, everybody in the community would be invited to come?
Respondent: Oh aye, we sold tickets – it was a big fundraiser for us, and it would sell out very, very quickly, many the night we’ve had to try and squeeze extra chairs to let the people in course everybody was in it had their parents as well so obviously…there was the Scouts and the Cubs did a wee bit as well.
Interviewer: Did you have to audition for your roles?
Respondent: Oh yes, aye yes we had to do all that sort of stuff and learn the scripts… funny enough I was remembering one incident last night, there was a skit I wasn’t involved in… a window cleaner’s skit… and Tom, the one who was mistaken for a girl, he was the main character in it and he called in sick on the second night and I just stepped in and did it cause I just knew it off by heart although I’d never been in it. We were a close… a very, very close group, the patrol leaders … the six of us that I remember were very, very close, and there was another one who was a Second, actually, he was a pal of Roy–Norman Bottomly, whose nickname obviously was ‘Bumzo’ and he was always in our group as well.
Interviewer: Do you remember the name of your patrol?
Respondent: Yes! Owls.”
7.56 - A brief discussion is then given on the names of the various patrols in the group.
8.16 - The Interviewer then steered the discussion back to a typical Scout night. The respondent described activities such as raising and lowering the flag and participating in inspections.
He recalled being in charge of his patrol, ensuring that shoes were clean and woggles were worn correctly.
The conversation then moved on to Scout knives, which were also considered part of the uniform.
“In those days, we had the big sheath knives with an eight-inch blade in them, which we all used to wear in the back of our belts.
Interviewer: Okay, so was that for, like, to be used for when you were going camping?
Respondent: Yes, but we used to walk about the streets with them… nobody bothered in those days, nobody ever thought about using them for any harm. We used to have knife-throwing contests with them, but they were quite lethal weapons; you’d get jailed now if you were carrying one of them.”
9.45 - The topic of conversation moves on to discuss Scouting events within the community, such as marches or church parades.
“The first Church parade we did was, if I remember rightly was the Episcopal Church in the village, now one of the other patrol leaders… Scouts, Terry Bowman and I were the first two Catholics to join the group, now going way back now sixty years, and this was quite a big thing, nobody had ever had Catholics in before and we had to do this thing and go to the Church so we had to go and see our Priest to see if we could go to the Protestant Church as it were. We just had a new Priest who wasn’t very keen on the idea, he said it was alright as long as we didn’t close our eyes! [laughs]”
10.50 - The interview moves on to talk about Davidson’s Mains yearly Gala.
“Of course, when we had the Gala every year, we did the parade. I don’t know if you still do. And we went through Viviene Terrace right past our house actually and I remember maybe my last year there I was the flag bearer which was quite an honour and probably because of my height cause the other two guys were taller than me so it kind of looked better but I remember that I was very, very proud of that fact and you know the old Baden-Powel hats.
11.17 - The Respondent is then asked if he received or worked on any badges during his time with the group.
“Yeah, I remember doing them all, various ones. In fact, Terry and I did a Religious Badge and I was looking at your badges up there [points to a poster on the wall] and I see you have World Religions now and we were the first people to have done it, I can’t remember how we discovered it as nobody had heard it before and we had to go to visit the Priest and went through a few classes and then we sat a test as it were and we got the badges and were both quite proud at that as nobody else had ever heard of one before.”
11.53 - The subject then changes to Bob-a-Job Week.
“Bob-a-Job week I remember in the Cubs now that I think about it…I don’t suppose you do that now either… it would be a fiver a job now probably [laughs] we used to do that, we used to do the whole of Corbiehill because I lived just across the road from Corbiehill Crescent and that was my patch, was down there.
Interviewer: What tasks did you do?
Respondent: Various things from cleaning a couple of windows, nothing of them very onerous - doing a little tidying up in the garden for some of the old people, making a cup of tea, just wee things, they were just happy to see us and give us a shilling…a bob.
Interviewer: And were most people happy to see you?
Respondent: Yes, ah yes, again it was a village tradition. Things were different then as they are now, we could roam the streets in the village any time of the day and nobody bothered you, there wasn’t much traffic in those days either, we still had I think it was the number 39 bus was still a single decker, because there was a railway bridge just where Tesco’s is now as they couldn’t get a double-decker under it so that one went to Barnton, it was either that one or the 41 one of them and that had to be a single decker, the other one terminated in Davidson’s Mains…Quality Street.”
13.08 - The Interviewer then asks the Respondent if he remembers much about the uniform he wore.
“Oh yes, aye yes… khaki shorts, khaki shirt and the big Baden Powell hat which was religiously… the brim… religiously pressed every week.
Interviewer: With an iron?
Respondent: Oh yes, aye, wet tea towel on it, on the iron.
Interviewer: Did you do that yourself?
Respondent: Oh yes, aye, that was our job, and your neckerchief… brown with a blue edging… is it still the same?
Interviewer nods: Oh, really, god what a memory!
Respondent: Of course, I think my mother used to iron that for me and we had our leather woggles apart from the clever ones who could do a Turkish head with it…Turk's head…I was never able to do that, never dexterous enough for that kind of thing. Interviewer: And did you sew on badges? Respondent: Yes, uh-huh, you had your sleeves all covered in badges, the Cubs was the same you always had them.
Interviewer: And again, did you do that or was that something your Mum did?
Respondent: Probably my mother did them, yeah, although we did learn to sew in the Cubs, and I remember that you used to have to…we learned to iron…and you had to go to somebody’s house and iron something in their house and they would tick your wee thing to say you’d passed your badge.”
14.25 - The Interviewer then asks if any particular Scout leaders were memorable or stuck out in his mind.
“The Scout Leader, I’d say Mr Gordon, who was a lovely, lovely man, now I don’t know what age he would be then, probably thirtyish when I think about it, although to us obviously, he was an older man. I’ve no idea whether he was married or not; we knew nothing about his family life, and he probably had a first name, but he was just Mr Gordon to us, and he had a dog, I remember, always remember the dog, and he loved to walk in the hills, and a lot of us used to go with him.
There were two or three others I say but Colin McLean was the only other name I remember, I know there were other ones but Colin, I remember one particular incident I remember we were in a camp somewhere, might have been in Dunkeld I don’t know, and Colin had kind of big face and quite large teeth and for some obscure reason he decided to come to our tent one night and by the side and stuck his head through and one of the guys said ‘there's a sheep!’ and went like that with a wooden mallet and broke his nose. But think about it, he did have that appearance, and of course, you weren’t expecting somebody to come in the side of the tent, and there were sheep and things about, so it was his own fault.”
15.50 - The Interviewer then asked whether the hill walks with the Scout Leader were conducted as part of the regular Scout nights.
“We used to do these mostly Sundays; we did them, but we did a lot of hiking in those days. We used to do nighttime ones, we’d practice up in the Corstorphine Woods, which was a place we knew like the back of our hand; we could walk round that blindfold, never mind in the dark, filled with stars. We learned to navigate by the stars, stuff we learned about navigation and observation…
one incident I remember… Mr Gordon invited me through on a Friday evening after we finished, and he says ‘Sit down I want a word with you’ We’re sitting having a chat and there was somebody came in and said ‘Here’s your tea Mr Gordon’ and walked out again and we carried on for a minute and he said ‘What was he wearing when he came in?’ and I said ‘Who?’ and he said ‘The guy who just brought me my tea’ I had absolutely no idea and he said ‘Learn to be observant and watch.’ And it’s something that’s stuck with me all my life that I do now, I take notice of everything around about me, and it's just a habit. I’m watching a television programme, and I can tell you what everyone in the background is wearing, never mind the main character, cause it’s just natural for me to do that. I never get lost now because we learned when we were out - pick a landmark somewhere and when I’m on holiday in Majorca or somewhere abroad, we’ll come out the hotel, my wife never has any idea which direction to go in and I come out and I’ll say ‘Its right to the centre’ ‘how do you know’ and I’ll say because ‘That steeple over there is always to our left as we came out’ and I notice that when I go in, it’s just something that I take note of.”
17.29 - The conversation then turned to twenty-four-hour hikes, including one undertaken for a badge with fellow Scout Ken McKenzie. The respondent recounted that just before this hike, he had been in the hospital due to a knee injury. Only about two hundred yards into the walk, he slipped and feared he had re-injured his knee, but fortunately, he was able to continue. He remembered the excitement of passing a field where a calf was being born and camping in a two-man tent.
He went on to recall another particularly memorable and thrilling hike he took part in.
“It was a Midlothian joint thing and we had teams of three, I remember there was Roy and me and I can’t remember who the other was, and we had to meet at Edinburgh Castle on a Saturday morning, I think it was about half past nine or something, and somebody said if you go up to the esplanade and you’re facing the castle there’s big steps that go down to your left so the guy said you go down those steps and they’ll be waiting for you down there to take you where you are going.
So we got down to the bottom and its sacks put over our heads, tied and thrown in the back of a van and we got driven away and sometime later we got let out the van with a map, a compass and a destination where we were to go to and that was it and they said…oh they gave a box or something, or a glass jar or a bottle maybe ‘you’ve to carry this with you and you’ve to deliver to the other side but they’ll be bandits on the road don’t let them take it.’
So we sorted ourselves out, and we hiked for miles, and then it got dark, and then we got jumped on by these three big guys, who did actually take the bottle from us, much to our [illegible], which we didn’t like, then we carried on. Then we came to the bit where we had to cross the river and the bridge was no longer there; it had been demolished about two years previously, and nobody had noticed and nobody had obviously walked the route.
So we wandered [illegible] and eventually a guy came and said ‘Sorry you’ve come this way and you can call it as you’ve done the journey now.’ And they took us to a Scout hut, no idea where to be honest, and they had a meal for us or a snack, and we stayed there overnight and slept. And we came second, I remember, and we were delighted and that was about thirty different Scout groups.”
20.23 - The Interviewer then turned the discussion to discipline within the Scout Group. The respondent described it as “strict,” noting that you simply “did what you were told.” He added that around 95% of those who joined the troop stayed, and he could not recall anyone being expelled or suspended. He also remembered that Patrol Leaders were disciplined by the Scout Leaders, and in turn, were responsible for maintaining good behaviour within their own patrols
22.03 - The Respondent is then asked if he felt the group had a camaraderie and goes on to talk about the games the Troop played.
“We were all together, yeah, we were proud of the fact that we were the Owls, and yeah, we wanted the Owls to be best at everything, so you did your best at everything, and it was competitive between them. We played all sorts of games…British Bulldogs being one of our favourites, basketball we played, football…five-a-side football and all. We had a football team as well, where we played outside, used to play in the park, and we had a rugby sevens team I remember played in a summer competition where the Gyle Retail Park is now, that used to be a big, huge… about 24 rugby football pitches and rugby pitches. I remember playing there against some… now I was small I could just make about 5 foot 6 if I stood up straight and I weighed about 7 stone I was a real skinny wee guy, but I was hardy and I can remember getting hit - I went for a ball and I knew that the best way to beat the player who was running for it was to take him out rather than the ball so I just ran into him but I did about a treble somersault and ended about thirty feet away and everybody went ‘ohhhhh’ and ran across to me but I just got up and shook myself off and I was fine and I never even got fouled for it”.
23.33 - The conversation then turned to patrol points and prizes for games and competitions, though the respondent could not recall whether these were awarded. The Interviewer then asked about his friendships within the Scout group. The Respondent explained that many of the Scouts attended different schools in the area, so they usually only saw each other on Fridays and Saturdays, but despite this, they all got along well.
“We all got on really, really well together and we had, I say, up in the loft - just as you went in the door of the Scout Hall there was a loft and we had a ladder, and we had that set out with settees and chairs and a table and a kettle, I think, and after group finished on a Friday night, which would be about 9ish probably, we’d go up there and be up there until about 11 and then go home…that was only about a five-minute walk home for me and occasionally we’d get a bag of chips or something – which was sixpence in those days…2 and a half pence.”
26.04 – 26.58 The Respondent goes on to say that after he left the group in 1963, he did not keep in touch with members of the Scout group but still remembers many of their names.
He goes on to talk a little about what he did after he left Scouts and then Edinburgh in 1967.
The Interviewer brings the conversation back to the types of games and activities played at Scouts and whether the Respondent remembers any others.
“Plate golf was always our favourite… don’t know if you still play that.
Interviewer: Could you fill us in a wee bit about plate golf?
Respondent: We used to build up through the area, through the trees and everything a nine-hole golf course and holes about the size maybe about 2 feet in diameter and flagpoles… just canes for the flags… but we used plastic plates because that’s what we used to use… like Tupperware plates… twelve-inch plates or something and you threw them like that [imitates throwing the plate] and of course they went in various directions and it was just to get to the hole in as little strokes… I’m still trying to do that on the golf course… and that was our favourite game of all, we were forever playing that.”
27.46 - The Respondent is then asked if he remembers taking part in any community volunteering projects other than Bob-a-Job Week or other community-based activities. He could not remember any volunteering projects, but talked again about the Troop’s annual Gang Show.
“That was a big fundraiser for that one, so we all used to look forward to it, and it was great fun, and we all loved taking part in it, and it didn’t matter if you could sing or not, but you were in the group that sung all the various Scout songs… ‘Riding Along on the Crest of the Wave ’etc, all the old favourites.”
28.27 - The Interviewer asked whether the Respondent knew what the fundraising money was used for. He was not certain but suggested that it most likely went towards the upkeep of the hall. He was unsure who owned the Scout Hall at the time and recalled that the original Catholic Church, now located on the site of the old Scout Hall, stood halfway down Main Street. He also remembered visiting the current Church Hall seven or eight years ago and noted that, inside, it looked much the same as he remembered.
29.39 - The Interviewer then asked if he felt the Scout Group was an important part of the community, to which the Respondent replied ‘absolutely’, remarking that everyone knew the group and was aware of the group and what they did.
He talks very briefly again about Bob-a-Job. The conversation then moves on to the Scout Trip to Germany.
“I know we saved for that for I think two years, and we took down, I can’t remember, a shilling a week or something which the Scouts held for us and that paid our trip… nobody had any money in those days, so it was quite a big thing. And of course, we all had to wear kilts now with a name like Flannigan I don’t have a tartan so we didn’t own kilts, my mother and father were both born in the Republic of Ireland, although my mother was brought up in Devon, so I had to borrow a kilt from somebody, it was a Royal Stuart Kilt incidentally I remember, I had to borrow a rucksack but we did and we travelled overnight train from King’s Cross…from Waverley to King’s Cross and then we got a train from there. I’m sure I remember the train actually went on the boat in those days across the channel, there used to be one called the ’Black Arrow’, now whether that was the one we were on I don’t know, and the boat had a railway track on it.
Interviewer: What year was this trip to Germany?
Respondent: 1961. 14 was the minimum age, so I just qualified for that, and then we went… I don’t remember much about the journey… I remember the customs people and the German police coming on, we had a communal passport… just a group… a Scout Passport, we didn’t have individual ones, so that was enough to get us there, and they came on and examined that and just had a look at us. I’ve got a lot of association with Germany, I worked there and lived there for three years, so I’m actually a German senior citizen, I get a pension from them.
We went to Munich and then stayed in a youth hostel there one or two nights anyway I remember there was a clock… fantastic clock you often see that every half hour or so all these objects come out and toot the hour and played tunes and things, and they sold the best milk in the railway station we’d ever had, you got it in like… I don’t know what the jugs were made of, they were that shape [shows with hands] with no handles on them and ice-cold, they were like marbly feel and ice-cold milk and absolutely lovely, we loved it. I remember that, as I hate milk, I don’t like it at all now.
From there we went to Berghausen, and we got our photograph taken by the local paper, and it made the front page of the local paper, now I did have a copy of it at one time, and then we got a civic reception from the Mayor of the town, and we got given seals. They were round things, maybe two or three inches in diameter, of the town which I no longer have; I don’t know where any of that stuff went. So that’d be 1961, so if you contact the local paper in Berghausen they may well have a record of us still and that photograph.“
33.25 - The respondent then recalled visiting Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the famous ski jump there. As it was summer, they were able to stand at the top, which he described as “terrifying.” The group then walked approximately 12 to 14 miles to Berchtesgaden, where they experienced what he called an “infamous incident.”
Four or five Scouts had climbed a hill and discovered a café serving delicious gateaux. They ordered the cakes, but beers were also served alongside them—even though most of the boys were only 14 years old. They drank the beer anyway. Upon returning to the youth hostel and preparing for dinner, Mr Gordon informed them that he had received a report about the boys consuming alcohol. The Scouts involved were terrified of the repercussions, but the Scout Master explained that, although they had considered sending them home, they ultimately decided against it on this occasion.
The group later returned to Munich, spending some time there before heading back to Edinburgh. The respondent remembered the trip as a wonderful experience and his first time travelling abroad.
36.06 - The conversation moves on to talk about the Scout’s involvement in the annual Davidson’s Mains Children’s Gala.
“The Gala was a major thing in the village…that was a big village event as well and the Saturday morning we used to gather inside the hall and get all prepared, the colour party and whatever…and the village queen… the gala queen… would arrive with her coach and horses and we’d be all set and we’d head off and I think we’d head left out the Scout Hall then right into that wee road that goes down to Viviane Terrace and then we’d turn right there past my house where we used to have a flag flying out…we had a white ensign… the Royal Navy flag, cause my father was in the Navy… someone stole it one year. And then facing you was, what was the Co-op, in those days… I don’t know what it is now… it used to be a big store… flats there… a friend lived in one of those flats, and there was railings I remember and a basement, and I got my head stuck in the fence I remember… I was about 10 or so, they had to get the fire brigade to get it out, I don’t think my mother ever knew about that one.
And then we would proceed to the Davidson’s Mains Park, where the main thing was, they had the funfair and all sorts of things there… the crowning of the Gala Queen. That is where everything happened, was the big park… there was two football pitches there… one that used to be run like that [shows sloping direction with hands], a big sloping verge… is it still there? Is it? [Interviewer nods] Have they never fixed that slope yet! [laughs].“
37.46 - The Respondent was then asked whether he recalled participating in any Remembrance Parades, to which he replied that he did not think he had taken part. He went on to discuss the Remembrance Monument in the village, noting that his brother’s name appears on it. His brother, Tommy, who served in the Royal Air Force, died in an accident in 1953 while on duty in Egypt. Initially, his name was not included on the monument because he had not died in active combat. However, the family argued that he had indeed died while serving in the forces, and his name was eventually added. A ceremony was later held to commemorate his death.
39.24 - The Interviewer then asked the Respondent if he had a favourite experience at any of the Scout camps, and he recalls visiting camps and Kelso and Forres. He talked about getting a delivery of milk and bread and cooking their meals. He mentioned singing songs at camps at the campfire, but couldn’t remember any specific ones.
40.43 - He was then asked whether he had received any Scout awards or accolades, which he believed he had not. He recalled that around forty boys attended the Friday night sessions, where they learned skills such as first aid and knot-tying - many of which he went on to use throughout his life. He went on to say that there were very few accidents within the troop, although he did badly injure his knee while playing British Bulldogs. He spoke briefly about his time in the hospital, where he required surgery on the injury. During his stay, he remembered seeing one of the first children born with thalidomide-related disabilities, and recalled a nurse remarking that, in comparison, he had little cause to complain about his knee.
(2nd Interview file) 0.00 - The Respondent was then asked if he felt Scouts had had a positive impact on his life.
“Yes it’s a very positive line and I would encourage any child to join the Cubs or Scouts [brief discussion is then given about Scouting in Dunoon, where he currently resides and family and his children and grandchildren who took part in Scouting and Guides] I think every child should embrace it because it teaches you an awful lot… useful stuff… which at the time you might not think is useful… but you never, ever forget it and I think that’s the beauty of it. And the friendship and camaraderie and just the activities you do and the places you go and visit…you know walking in the hills and how you learn with a map and a compass, no Google maps in those days it really was a map and a compass and I’m sure to this day if you stuck me on a mountain with a map and a compass I could find my way home without any trouble at all. And even now, when I’m out at night and where we live, we can walk half a mile, and you can see every star in the sky, and I can still pick out the stars and the directions of them…these things you don’t just forget.”
1.45 - When asked if he had any thoughts or memories about the 30th Scout Group that he would like to share, the Respondent spoke about recalling some of the other local Scout troops in the surrounding area. He mentioned a friend who attended a Scout Jamboree and had the opportunity to meet Lady Baden-Powell, though the respondent himself never attended a jamboree.
Another memory he recalled was attending the Gang Show, during which they learned of John F. Kennedy’s assassination. After the show, he bought a special edition of the local newspaper to take home.
The conversation then briefly turned to the troop logbooks. The respondent explained that these were taken home after the Friday night sessions or Saturday night hikes and were written by the Scouts themselves rather than by the leaders.
The Interview then concluded, and the Respondent was thanked for sharing his memories and giving his time to the Project